delmarsdoll

Ok, I'm re-reading Killing Time because all the discussion lately has sparked the need to re-visit the slash. Beginning on pg 262, we get fifteen pages of beautiful slash. It starts with the Romulan Praetor questioning Spock about what could be so important in a fictional universe that he cannot stay with her in this universe, and Spock's answer is, "James Kirk." The discussion continues for several pages; then we move to Spock finding the abandoned ensign Kirk through the mind link and Kirk realizing it's Spock to the rescue even though he (Spock) is in a Romulan ship (again through the mind link). Then, on page 273, Kirk and Spock get some alone time and talk about how Spock came to trust the Romulan leader. Spock tells Kirk cuz she saved his life (helped him through Pon Farr). Spock comes to the realization that the Praetor was correct when she said "He is even deeper in your blood than Vulcan." Ensign Kirk begins to get a little nervous about returning to the correct universe where he will be captain, so Spock makes a joke. Of course he mispeaks it a little and Kirk gently corrects him. At this point, Spock has his hand on Kirk's shoulder. Then:
Kirk looked up, jaw falling with disbelief until he observed the warm twinkle in the Vulcan's eyes. He laughed aloud. "It's called a rubber ducky, Spock!" he corrected. "A rubber ducky."
The Vulcan's head inclined in agreement, maintaining dignity to the last. "As you wish,...Captain Kirk," he conceded.

Ok, now picture the scene. The two men are in a stance that in any romantic movie would lead to a kiss after a declartion of "I love you." So, where's the "I love you"? Hello, Princess Bride?! "As you wish" Wesley makes it very clear to Buttercup that everytime he says this, he is saying I love you. But PB came out after Killing time you say. Yes, the movie did, but the book was written in 1973. The phrase "As you wish" doesn't really fit in the context of Kirk correcting Spock's mistake. "If you say so" would make much more sense. When you mispronounce something and are corrected, you don't respond to whoever with an "As you wish." You might respond with an "If you say so." So, I contend that Miss Della was sneaking in an "I love you" disguised as "As you wish" is a scene that sets them up to be in a stance to kiss.

BTW, Spock's "As you wish" is the last bit of that encounter before a page break. Page breaks usually imply that time has passed, and Spock commented earlier in the interaction that they had 30 minutes before they reached their destination. The next bit on the page has them at their destination. Now, what did those boys do with 30 minutes?

OMG, Iz can be hard to follow at 5:45am. Now I have to go to work with even fewer hours of sleep. Oh well, K/S.

If you made it through my babbling, leave me note to let me know what you think.
Sniffre

Ok, so i am large chested. Once I walked into a bar wearing a John Lennon shirt and this guy, at least 20 years my senior, says, "My, John has big shoulders." I didn't get it at first cuz I had no interest at all in this guy. Later, I was like "Huh, I wonder if that was a pick up line?" When I shared it with my sister, she said "Duh, yes it was a pick up line." Luckily, I didn't get it; that guy disappeared in an alcohlic stupor. I'm not even sure if he is still alive.

This post grew from a reply I left to Spooky FBI. I felt I wanted to make it a post because it expands on the discussion I started and gets a little closer to the discussion I meant to start long ago.

To Spooky FBI:
I haven't read Fate of the Phoenix. I've tried, but it didn't grab me from the beginning like Price. It starts with James and the Romulan and really gets into the "he's such a frail being. He needs her to protect him." I found that a little stifling and overdone. I mean, if the humans are truly that much weaker physically than the Romulans, how come the Roms haven't taken over yet? I think it's in the bit of Fate that I read, but it talks about James not even being strong enough to open Romulan doors. Anyway, so I can't speak to the slashiness of the sequel, but I think Price of the Phoenix deserves its own discussion.

And the expanded comment meant for all:
I got a comment on an earlier book discussion that the authors of the Phoenix books were/are NOT K/S fans and that all the slash we see is just our over active imaginations and wasn't intended by the authors. I would like to expand this discussion to include scenes from those books and other stories they edited. Could they really have intended K/S to be nothing more than friends? Are we using slash goggles? I included in my rebuttal to that commenter that Culbreath and Marshak had replied favorably to a fan in the seventies who had commended them for truly understanding the real relationship between K/S. That sounds like affirmation of K/S to me, but the commenter said again than they (Culbreath and Marshak) were acknowledging Kirk and Spock's relationship as that of a deep bond like a brotherhood but not as lovers. This commenter said she had read an article from the 70s in which C and M deny that they write or encourage K/S. However, she could not remember where she read nor find this article. I read a very long editor's note in which, to me, they sound like they actively encourage and participate in K/S. In the books Star Trek the New Voyages I and II, which they authored and/or edited, they include some very slashy seeming stories, including an over the top slash fest written by Nichelle Nichols. Again, in my discussion with this other commenter, she said it was all slash goggles on my part and it was never intended that way. I find this so hard to believe from the authors of the Phoenix books. So, again, I want scenes that we think are slashy and discussion if we are just making it up. Could Culbreath and Marshak have intended nothing more than a deep friendship? Well, of course, but it doesn't seem very logical.

Like how I used the slash there in the title? I iz clever... Anyway, I've been meaning to start a discussion that may turn into a debate on the intended or perceived slashiness of some of our fav Star Trek novels. Just to clarify, I'm talking about professionally published novels whose copyrights are owned by Paramount. Now, I will open the discussion with just a wee tiny bit or bits from the latest novel that I have read, Strangers from the sky, by Margaret Wander Bonanno published in 1987. However, I am also open for discussion concerning any of the other pro novels such as The Price of the Phoenix, The Fate of the Phoenix, Star Trek the New Voyages I and II, Killing Time, The Motion Picture novelization, etc. I only list these books because I have read them, though I have read others also, and felt there was some deliberately intended slashy goodness. Of course, without a direct conversation with the authors, it is all speculation, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss our interpretations of intent.

If you want to join in this discussion, I would like you to tell us the title of the book, give us the quote or situation that you are citing, and your feelings on if the slashiness was intended or not. Sometimes we see things with our slash goggles that may not have been what the author wanted us to see. Sometimes, though others will argue, there is no other logical interpretation for the events or words. Ok, I'll start.

I just finished Strangers from the sky and I am now re-reading it as I highlight the K/S moments. Short summary: The timeline is split into three settings; the current time is set between The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan. Kirk is an admiral; Spock is a captain. A new historical novel has been released called, surprisingly enough, Strangers from the sky. Many people on earth read it, including our Enterprise friends, and begin experiencing psychological problems. The second time setting is during Kirk's very earliest days as captain of the Enterprise. We get awesome storylines with Lee Kelso, Gary Mitchell, and Elizabeth Dehner. The third time setting is in their long ago past, or our near future, in the year 2045. All of these timelines come together in a very easy to follow and, I thought, exciting story for our fellows. However, we are here to discuss slashiness. While this story is full of what I perceive as intended romantic relationship or interactions between K/S, I will only cite two for now.

1. Spock is on the Enterprise as her captain running training drills with cadets. He, too, has read the new book, Strangers, and begun to have strange psychological disturbances in the form of very vivid dreams. Kirk is on earth as an Admiral at Star Fleet headquarters and is experiencing the same problems. Spock uses meditation to try to figure out what is going on with his dreams. As he emerges from his meditations, he perceives that Kirk is in trouble, so he, "Spock reached within, took up the silver thread that linked his mind with Jim's. Those whose minds had touched and been touched were given this. Spock searched, found no immediate danger to the human he so valued...Jim Kirk's voice had called to him from across the galaxy once before, drawing him from the reaches of the Kolinahr, and he had answered. He would do so again." (The once before is in reference to the Motion Picture Novelization written by Gene Roddenberry.)

Now, before I offer any commentary on this passage, I want to bring you the second.

2. Spock and Kirk are engaging in a mind meld in order to figure out what the deep psychological problems are that they are both experiencing. During the meld, Spock is reminded of his first meld with Kirk during the Melkot incident in which Spock had to convince the rest of the landing party that the bullets weren't real. (This is taken from an actual episode in season 3). During that initial meld, Kirk's mind met Spock's mind with a joke. Spock reflects now that it was Kirk's ability to find humor even in dire situations that fascinated him and, "made him hold on-for weal or for woe, as McCoy would say-for as long as they both should live.”

My commentary is fairly simple. In both cases, the language was chosen to reflect a life long commitment. In the first example, we see the words specifically used by Vulcans who have been joined with the intention of bonding. Also, it says, they "were given" the silver thread that joined their minds. Not, they developed this thread from years of melding, but specifically they were Given this thread because their minds "had touched and been touched". Those words, touched and been touched are the exact words used in Amok Time to indicate a bonding. In the second example, we see the very familiar human words used in most western wedding ceremonies "for as long as they both should live." The author could've used many other choices of words to indicate a lifelong friendship. I think it is very deliberate in both cases that she used words to suggest both a Vulcan bonding and a human marriage.

But, that's just my opinion. This book is full of many more examples, that in my opinion, indicate an on going romance or relationship between K/S.

So, give me your opinions on things you have read which Paramount sanctioned (RE: Gene Roddenberry allowed) to be put into press. Is it intended or are we just slash goggle happy?

Sniffre

Ok, I promised a gift in exchange for some great recs. So, here it is. I'm not sure how much of a gift it is though. It is my first ever fan anything, and it's kind of a downer. I have been feeling introspective lately, and this was born of that. Love it, hate it, just don't flame me please. Remember, it's the thought that counts.

Disclaimer: Of course, I have no money so don't sue me please. The use of the poem at the end is done with utmost respect for what I believe to be a beautiful piece of writing. I gave all credit to the original author. I will remove it if necessary, but I can think of no better way to say what needs to be said.

So, on with the fic.

Summary: TOS; Spock thinks he is dying.

Vulcans do not lie. If the universe could physically slap itself for abhorrent lies, I believe it would do so for this commonly held belief. Vulcans do lie, and our most frequent victims of this most illogical act are, ourselves. I know. I am Spock of Vulcan, son of Sarek, of the matriarch T’Pau, of the clan of Surak. But I do not need to tell you this. You know who I am. Perhaps you are the only being in the universe who could lay claim to this fact.
What is this falsehood that we Vulcans insist to be true? I believe this to be insanely obvious; it is that we have no emotions; that we control them; that we are purely logical beings. One of the definitions of insanity is the tendency to repeat an act or belief in the same manner and expect different results. Time and again, I kept myself from experiencing the emotions you made me feel. Each time I was left hollow, incomplete, broken. At other times, I would allow myself the briefest moment of joy when I unexpectedly glimpsed your smile or felt your casual touch upon my arm or fell into your eyes as they gazed upon my soul. But each time I would expect this second or millisecond of joy to be enough to sustain me for the remainder of my days. Two hours later would find me in my chambers deep in meditation to remove this joy, to flagellate myself for ever thinking there could be enough of you. Even in my meditations I demonstrated an insane pattern of thought.
Vulcans are a highly emotional race. As you know the history of my world, you know that our emotions nearly destroyed us. Five thousand years of Surak’s teachings cannot erase millions of years of evolution. Emotions continue to pervade every Vulcan and every fiber of our being. Only those that travel the path of Kolinahr can truly claim to be free of hurt, anger, love, joy, envy, jealousy…Even then, is not the appreciation of beauty a show of emotion albeit disguised in an aesthetic philosophy? I can think of no Vulcan who does not devote some time to the appointments and appearances of domicile, robes, and self.
A lucky Vulcan, what a truly illogical adjective for Vulcans do not believe in luck, may chance to meet an elder who can transcend the falsehood and admit to the truth. Our emotions are just as present today as they were before Surak and as they are in other sentient beings. When in the company of our peers, it is considered bad form to show or admit to any emotion. When in the company of outworlders, it is considered a weakness. When in the company of a hybrid, it is considered a brazen fact of superiority that full Vulcans do not attempt to hide their emotions. There is no need. They are born free of the bane of emotions. Or so they will say in the perpetuated lie.
Perhaps that is why you, my captain, were able to break through my barriers. You were not my peer; you are my commander. You were not an outworlder, but, instead, a native of this world we call Enterprise. I do not believe I need to tell you that you are not a full Vulcan.
Jim, that may have been a joke; I am not sure.
Twelve point two four hours ago, I came in contact with a new fungus while part of the botanical away team on the planet below. Fortunately, the other members of the team were already aboard the ship, and I am the only member who was exposed to this fungus. Five point five hours ago, while examining this new fungus in the lab, I discovered that exposure to it had reactivated a long dormant virus in my blood. Unfortunately, the reactivation of this virus will be fatal. Should Dr. McCoy decide it is necessary to conduct a post mortem, I have left a tape solid of all the details of the virus and its effects on the body. I have also left him the details of my final wishes. That pain is not for you. I estimate that I have just over one hour left of consciousness, and approximately two hours left of life. What is the point, now of estimations to the third decimal point of accuracy?
Jim, my captain, I began this letter as a means to finally speak aloud my feelings for you. Instead, I presented you with a history and pathos of Vulcan logic and lies. This conditioning is truly difficult to best. I shall leave you with a poem. Perhaps, that will say what I have never been able to breathe.

My father gave no word of love to me.
My mother practiced laudable restraint.
My Vulcan childhood lessons logically
Prepared me to despise the human taint.

I could not blame T’Pring; I saw that she
Let flawless logic over pledge prevail.
For she would stop at nothing to be free
Wisely to mate with a pure Vulcan male.

Human tormentors do not understand
Acknowledgement of feeling causes pain,
Cruelly subvert defenses I had planned,
Plot to anesthetize my watchful brain.

What will they find when I am ripped apart?
“I love you, Captain,” written on my heart.

Entire poem “Soliloquy” credited to
Marguerite B. Thompson
Published in Star Trek: The New Voyages 2
Editors Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath
Copyright 1977

Last month there was a discussion on slashiest star trek novels. I dutifully read all the recommendations and purchased several of the books. Today I picked a real gem that I don't remember being on the list . Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath have given us the slash greats Price of the Phoenix and Fate of the Phoenix. They also edited and contributed to Star Trek The New Voyages 1 and 2. It is this last volume, Star Trek The New Voyages 2, that I am talking about today. If it was mentioned on the last discussion, I apologize. I bought it today because of the slashiness of the previous volume and their other work.

I have only read the first story so far, and the slash doesn't just drip from the page, in pours in cascading buckets. This story, Surprise!, was written by Marshak and Culbreath, and, wait for it...Nichelle Nichols! That's right ladies and gents, our very own Miss Uhura took part in writing the slashiest thing I have read so far in this fandom. (Of course I'm speaking of, ahem, subtext). And the copyright is held by Paramount, which at the time, probably meant, Roddenberry. Completely sanctioned slash.

Examples: First paragraph of story, opening sentences!
"Spock turned as the transporter effect released them, with some thought of how to hustle the Captain off to bed, not too obviously." Seriously?!

Spock and Kirk talk briefly about initiating the old Earth custom of birthday spankings (The story takes place on the night before and the day of Kirk's bday). Kirk speculates on whether Spock was implying SOMEONE might try to spank the ship's captain.

Spock, still trying to get Kirk into bed (ahem) offers to do the final bridge check for the evening. Apparently it has been a very stressful day that almost ended in Kirk's death. Spock tempts Kirk by suggesting he should take a look at the ongoing chess game instead of going to the bridge. The chess game takes place in a private alcove Spock created last year on Kirk's bday in a space between their quarters. Anyway, Kirk gives in and turns toward his room as Spock heads to the bridge and we get the following:
"All right, Spock. You hooked me. Sure you wouldn't like to tuck me in?"
Spock allowed himself to brighten visibly. "Quite a logical suggestion, I believe." He inclined an eyebrow toward Kirk's door.
There's actually much more to this encounted, but this is getting quite lengthy. I'm only on page 4 of a 31 page story! There is literally something on every page.

There is one bit where I thought they were attempting to lessen the slash, but, no. Spock and Kirk are in Spock's room and Kirk thinks he is hearing noise coming from his room (which he is but Spock needs him to believe that there is no noise). Spock assures Kirk that there is no way his human ears could hear through the sound proofing since his Vulcan ears have never heard Kirk during his nocturnal activites with various female diplomats. So, this is where I think, ok, even these authors have caved to the hetero Kirk houndog. Kirk clearly implies that being with these women was a diplomatic obligation (his words), and that being with them has "ripped something more than logic" (again his words) from him. Spock assures him he's never heard anything. And Kirk says, "I certainly hope not. And if you did, where were you when I needed you?" What?! Kirk needed Spock to save him from the big bad womens?!

There is so much more in this story, but I'll save it for discussion if anyone is up for it. I read a really bad review of this book which kept me fomr buying it originally. I am glad I caved today even if the rest of the book is crap. Oh, ya, this is the book that ends with the poem from Spock to Kirk with the last line "I love you, Captain, written on my heart." BUY IT IF YOU CAN!

Peace, Sniffre

     So, I've been here for nearly two years, and this is my first post.  Lurker is such a dirty word, but if the shoe fits...I go through times of prolific actual reading and virtual writing.  Virtual writing?  Yep, I've got volumes in my head that never seem to make it to paper.  I've been reading even more than a typical heavy spell, and I think all the words have had enough of being kept in my head.  OMG, I can so not make sense sometimes. 
     My current obsessions are the new ST 2009, but mostly, ZQ.  Now, I'm gonna be a big brave dog here and admit that I didn't know who ZQ was before Spock.  Heroes was always one of those shows that I meant to watch, but for whatever reason, never did.  Ironically, my parents are obsessed with 24, and I started watching it with them beginning with season 4!  Trust me, I would've tracked down all things Adam if I had seen that!  I have been an original ST fan since age 11ish (about 1982).  A friend of mine got me into it because she and her sis could obsess like nothing you can imagine.  Not that it matters, but other early obsessions included Duran, Adam Ant, and (older sister influenced) Styx.  The only two I've stuck with are ST and AA.  (The previous 3 sentences are mostly a locator beam for old said friend, though the title of my lj ought to be enough of a clue).
     Anyway, I've always been a lover of Spock, so ZQ playing Spock is just like so awesomo.
     My journal will most likely consist of random ramblings, recycled myspace blogs, odd/interesting news, way cool news about my kids, bitching about ex, the occasional writing prompt, and maybe (if I get really big brave dog) fanfic.  My current fandoms are (in no particular order) (what is it with all th parenthetical  statements?), ST TOS and Reboot, Torchwood, Southland, Brokeback, Hard Core Logo, Alexander the great, and mulder/krycek (still the one true paring) (any old fight club members out there?).  I've been trying to find some fanfic from any of Eytan Fox's movies particularly The Bubble or Yossi and Jagger, but I would also like Walk on Water.  Any help?  Yes, I read rps.  I often rofl at comments that say "I never read rps but this one caught my eye."  Yes, you do, because really, even though they use real names, the fic is still about characters.   I don't, however, read any Heath rps anymore because that does seem disrespectful.  I'm not judging anyone that does, just stating a preference.
     Ok, air is out, and it's like 90 freaking degrees even though it's 11 pm.  Ahh, summer in the moisture ripe midwest!  I'm going to take refuge elsewhere, so Spock out.  (That's my fav thing to say everytime I flip my phone closed.)
Peace love understanding
Sniffre (or Kris I will use either name whenever)